West Michigan Democratic Caucus Splits on SB776

Ugg. (4.00 / 2)

I've realized if I say anymore than that on this issue, I'm not likely to be polite or even very rational at this point.  

"It does not take a majority to prevail... but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of men."

~Samuel Adams

---

by: LisainManistee @ Wed May 28, 2008 at 12:20:58 PM CDT

Then I will say this. (4.00 / 1)

When Andy Dillon runs for Governor in 2010 I will work my but  off to see that he is defeated.

---

by: michmark @ Wed May 28, 2008 at 21:07:35 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

I'll join you. (4.00 / 1)

"It does not take a majority to prevail... but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of men."

~Samuel Adams

---

by: LisainManistee @ Thu May 29, 2008 at 08:29:13 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Relax, There is a Bigger Picture (0.00 / 0)

First of all assuming Granholm is going to veto this Dillon is giving some candidates in more conservative districts, like Dean, an opportunity for some cover w/o doing any real damage. Furthermore if the Dems as a party don't start dealing with this issue with a little more tolerance we will snatch defeat from the jaws of victory this year. I know some out there don't want to hear it but the Dems lost one of their stalwart constituencies when they alienated Catholics on this issue. Many Catholics voted for candidates that they would otherwise not even consider voting for because of the influence of Right to Life in that community. Why do you think Sak voted yes? If he voted No he would not be having fund raisers at the KofC Hall on the West Side.

Dillon, Sak and Dean are doing what they have to do to survive, give them a break.  

---

by: ppwiii @ Thu May 29, 2008 at 07:05:23 AM CDT

And without that procedure, my best friend would be dead. (4.00 / 1)

Not politically but literally, as in no longer living, leaving behind two small children to grow up motherless.

They get no break from me.

Sorry.  

"It does not take a majority to prevail... but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of men."

~Samuel Adams

---

by: LisainManistee @ Thu May 29, 2008 at 08:32:11 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Survival, my ass (4.00 / 2)

There are things more important in this world than a crappy little state House seat.  Like your integrity.

I am so sick of people telling me to "give a little more" on this issue, when for 30 f*king years Roe v. Wade and choice have been hammered relentlessly.  RTL won't be satisfied with this and everybody knows it.

Appeasement emboldens the opposition, ask John McCain.

No PBAs in MI in the last 2 years.  Federal ban already in place.  Now people like Holly Hughes can cram Mary Valentine's vote down her throat until November.  Nice going.

---

by: gauchiste @ Thu May 29, 2008 at 08:52:53 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

If Sak voted yes (4.00 / 1)

so he could have fund raisers at the KC Hall then that is a terrible sell out. Having said that I am willing to give Dean and Sak a little more slack on this than Dillon. He is the one who needlessly let this come up for a vote and got nothing in return. And what good is a Granhom veto going to be if it is overturned. The votes are there to do it and that will make this situation even worse.

I wold like to thank Mary Valentine for having the courage to vote against this given the tough race she is facing this fall. Dillon might have just insured her defeat.  

---

by: michmark @ Thu May 29, 2008 at 15:17:05 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

My guess (4.00 / 1)

is Sak voted for it since he's actually pro-life and against partial birth abortions.  I wonder if he also voted for the amendment to add "health of the mother."  

It's also a real fact that a pro-choice Democrat almost certainly could not win that seat or the 29th Senate seat which Mike is hopefully going to run for. Our Democratic base hear and especially in the 76th is working-class Catholic.  I'd much rather have Sak than any Republican, and that's probably our choice at this point.  Frankly, I think some pro-life Democrats saw this as a easy vote that allows them to show their pro-life credentials without actually effecting any women (given the procedure apparently hasn't been done in Michigan for at least 2.5 years and it is already against federal law).  I do blame Dillon for putting Valentine in a bind and for not getting more in return from the Republicans.

Muskegon county is different than Kent and Ottawa and Valentine will have plenty of money to get her message out.  But, yeah, we're going to all have to work harder for that seat now.

Politics is sometimes about the possible, it sucks that way, but we don't live in San Francisco.

Join the Rising: Sign up for a WMR Account Today, it's free and private

---

by: philgoblue @ Thu May 29, 2008 at 16:08:39 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Of Course Sak . . (0.00 / 0)

voted the way he did because he was pro life, not because he wanted to have fund raisers at the KofC. And I do know folks that had abortions and realize that abortions are sometimes medically necessary to save the life/health of the mother. On the other hand even Roe v. Wade did not authorize abortion on demand through the third trimester. Demanding that we have a platform that denounces any limits on abortion is not realistic. That does not mean we have to adopt the Right to Life position but we do have to formulate a party position that accepts the Sak/Dean point of view as legitimate. Otherwise you might as well hand every heavily Catholic precinct over to the GOP. That will make for a nice world.                                                                                                 .

---

by: ppwiii @ Thu May 29, 2008 at 21:23:09 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

This is not about abortion on demand in any way shape or form. (0.00 / 0)

And anything that Democrats who voted for it were thinking about getting will apparently not be happening.

---

by: michmark @ Thu May 29, 2008 at 22:26:55 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Screw RTL (0.00 / 0)

Candidates like Sak & Dean don't need the RTL endorsement as much as they need to be able to tell their constituents that they did not support PBA when they had a chance. They need to deflate the GOP attack on that issue. They don't need to be to the right of the GOP, just right on this issue for their voters. Dillon had a tough choice to make but I like his choices a lot better than the likes of Ken Sikkema or Glen Steil.  

---

by: ppwiii @ Fri May 30, 2008 at 06:08:26 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Have It Your Way (0.00 / 0)

Go ahead, hand the legislature over to the likes of the Voorhees clan and the governors office to Dickie. I do not agree with what has gone on but I am not ready to throw otherwise good Dems off the train over it either. I don't agree with most of the Dems on some issues like immigration, handguns, seatbelts and helmets but that doesn't mean I won't support them. My point is that we have screwed ourselves up over this now for 30+ years. We let this issue give us the likes of the current war criminal in the White House. Are we going to make PBA a litmus test for nomination to office or adopt a more big tent approach to avoid turning the government over to Pat Robertson and John Hagee.

On the other hand I understand the passion and the fear of the slippery slope. We have common enemies, Bush, Cheney, Scalia, etc. They have gutted the Bill of Rights, except the 2nd Amendment. The 4th Amendment is on life support. At some point though you have to realize that an issue is at least temporarily lost. You do not have to abandon it forever but you have to wait for the right time to push it rather than self inflict a fatal wound.    

---

by: ppwiii @ Thu May 29, 2008 at 10:20:20 AM CDT

That's your choice. (4.00 / 1)

I've made mine.

You speak of fatal political wounds and I think of the actual fatalities of actual women that could occur if I don't hold to my values and principles.

For me, that's the way it is and that's just that.

Have you even known anyone that would have died without this procedure?

Have you ever known a teenage girl that's committed suicide because she couldn't get an abortion and didn't want to spend her life raising a kid she didn't want?

I have, on both counts.

For me, it's not politics. It's life and death and I know where I stand on this issue.

Some think of this issue and think of politics, I think of this issue and think of the funerals I thankfully didn't have to attend and mourn the ones I have.

That's all there is to it for me. There is a clearly defined line and I know which side of it I'm on. If others want to cede ground that is their choice, but I won't join them.


"It does not take a majority to prevail... but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of men."

~Samuel Adams

---

by: LisainManistee @ Thu May 29, 2008 at 11:15:53 AM CDT

[ Parent ]